Higher levels are mostly teleport+ spam. Lower levels are just the same with melee builds whoever gets more lucky hits wins or who got the better items.
Then you have to deal with rules made up of all subjective opinions.
If you are poor you can forget about pvping at all on any public room as it is infested with hacks everywhere and people with insane gear that you can't even possibly get by legit means unless you devote your self 24/7 on the game.
The legit pvps are fill with these silly rules that handicaps your build to let the other build have a higher chance of winning that to me sounds like a fear of competition, i know you can completely shutdown any sorceress so people impose rules such as limiting resistance or absorbtion to me that is just silly why should one not to use anything to win within the game's barrier?
Or when a smiter uses exile that considers bad manners, how is raising one's chance of winning bad manners? it sounds like a bunch of incompetant players made up these rules, it is not official or global, it is just within a small group of people, sounds a lot like scrubs.
Then theres the bvb scene where you are automatically label noobish for using any form of poison damage or when you use a eth fortitude.
Why do people make up these silly rules as d2 was never meant to be pvp oriented?
if you want to prove you got gaming skills there are a lot of better competitive and balance games out there with official rules.
most of them have tournaments you can clearly see whose better and gauge a player's skill by seeing replays, you cannot do this with diablo 2 since it is mostly gear dependent.
so why do you people bother with pvp?
is it just for fun or the addiction?|||i chrashed games and pk'ed.. then got the noob to bring in all his friends, only for me to duel them all night long .. great times.. oh and i also found my way in to those lamers in europvp and whatnot and ripped them apart.. with a friend or two ofc..
oh btw it is not about the gear.. never was|||so your saying you can duel people naked and win?
the playing field is huge you can freely move around there is no tricks to use, no out smarting your opponent like in fighers.
the superior gear and build will always come up on top.
with all respect you still need some good eye coordination and good clicking skills but with out gear even if you have best of both you still can't compete at all.
not to mention in general pvp you have to level up the character get all the gear and just found out it sucks most of time, so you are left with only builds that can do damage that is hard to negate.|||Quote:
It is mostly gear based and how much time your willing to spend on a build.
This alone tells me you don't know much about pvp. It probably just wasn't your thing, but when getting into it, it is very clear that it is not gear based unless you are in a purely melee duel.
Gear will indefinitely play a big role--you need to have the res, life, speed, and damage to keep up--, but is not a way to indicate who will win, who will lose, or who stands no chance.
The rules (GM) are made over time, and are actually pretty objective. It does mostly amount to "BM = what gives one person absolute advantage over another (sorb to an elemental user, life tap in melee, rejuvs, etc)".
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The legit pvps are fill with these silly rules that handicaps your build to let the other build have a higher chance of winning that to me sounds like a fear of competition, i know you can completely shutdown any sorceress so people impose rules such as limiting resistance or absorbtion to me that is just silly why should one not to use anything to win within the game's barrier?
It isn't a matter of being afraid of competition when smiter 1 has sorb gear, and sorc 2's attacks only heal him. How fun would that be?
The rules aren't there to gimp you so the other can win, it gimps the opponent from having a big advantage. They still exist, but aren't as extreme as that example; hence the rule structure.
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Or when a smiter uses exile that considers bad manners, how is raising one's chance of winning bad manners? it sounds like a bunch of incompetant players made up these rules, it is not official or global, it is just within a small group of people, sounds a lot like scrubs.
Actually, it is largely global. Each realm has their own specific rules, but many have a big over lap.
Tap comes into play because 1 has it, the other doesn't. One or two hits puts Hp at max. Meanwhile, the other has no such attack. So when you deal damage that he heals, and he deals damage that doesn't, you have no chance. There's no fun in that. There are rules allowing it, but it has to be agreed upon. Forcing that on someone would be against it.
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Why do people make up these silly rules as d2 was never meant to be pvp oriented?
The rules balance the game. D2 is made for PvM because it has storyline. PvP is the end game aspect that is a part of the replay value, and has some, but not a lot of focus.
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if you want to prove you got gaming skills there are a lot of better competitive and balance games out there with official rules.
most of them have tournaments you can clearly see whose better and gauge a player's skill by seeing replays, you cannot do this with diablo 2 since it is mostly gear dependent.
However, those games aren't Diablo. These people played the game, got the gear, then got bored / competitive. They shouldn't look to a different game to play something that's already there, with the chars they've already made.
Even still, there are tournaments with specific rules.
There are even D2 private realms featuring perfect gear. The duels are only between players; no items involved.
The allure of D2's pvp is that it isn't a gear based game. Unskilled people can (often do with ebay + bnet) have good gear, but can't use it. Meanwhile, a seasoned pvper can out duel him in lesser gear (often they have to since they may forgo dupes altogether).
Why I like it? I can take a very out matched duel (my Ghost), and take on a barb (bad, medium, even a good one once), and come out fairly 50/50. Similarly, a barb can take on a hdin and enjoy the wins. Smiters can take on a barb and enjoy being able to get a kill.
It's all about skill, and with D2, it's a familiar game with a rewarding feeling when you use skill to over come a disadvantage in a char match up.
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so your saying you can duel people naked and win?
It's been known to happen, but no, it isn't reliable.
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the playing field is huge you can freely move around there is no tricks to use, no out smarting your opponent like in fighers.
the superior gear and build will always come up on top.
Again, this shows you either have zero, or very little experience PvPing.
If there were no tricks, how do you think players escape a Trapper? How would they avoid a hammerdin? How would they desync on cue? How would they chainlock attacks?
Each of those are what it takes to be good, and none of those have anything to do with gear.
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with all respect you still need some good eye coordination and good clicking skills but with out gear even if you have best of both you still can't compete at all.
Even a budget Ghost can make short work of even the high DR / block escape defensive sorcs.
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not to mention in general pvp you have to level up the character get all the gear and just found out it sucks most of time, so you are left with only builds that can do damage that is hard to negate.
Leveling (which isn't hard) has no correlation to being negated. However, the sorb is what determines that, which is why physical and magical damages are most common.|||Quote:
Higher levels are mostly teleport+ spam. Lower levels are just the same with melee builds whoever gets more lucky hits wins or who got the better items.
you lost me there. you've never dueled obviously.|||so basically what all of you just said is just clicks? oh and i know about d2 pvp, how many of you remember trapsins locking hex amazons back in 1.09? there was still ways out of it, all you had to do was put on more fhr items.
if it is not gear based, i like to see two people on the same level, say sor vs sor everythings the same except one has skill charms,hellfire torch,and annihilus, the other one doesn't it is very obvious which one will win.
budget gear still means gear so you still need them to have any chance of pvping, thus gear based.
stuff like desync is just a bad server implenmentation you can easily handle it with houses ponds etc . chain locks are just name locking and switching to teleport these things aren't hard to do and you cannot do this unless you have teleport or using a assassin's dragon flight.
if your budget assassin trap hybrid can kill barbs , then the barb isn't being competitive enough, with max resist a teleporting shield barb will always kill any kind of assassin this is fact, so instead people impose rules on the barb to give the assassin a chance of winning.
the rules made up are not balancing at all it only balance to your favors to what you think is fair.
you just need to know how to handle each build there is very little skill involve if any at all, mostly the gear is doing everything. as it is proven no character can duel with out gear.
a barb is the best example try dueling with out enigma the only thing you can win against are those that willing to go melee with you.
most builds depends on that sole piece of gear. i don't care if you are the world #1 at diablo pvp with out gear your skill wouldn't be anything.|||Not even changing charms between sorcs will tip it that far.
Let's use a FB sorc as an easy example. That SvS is already a very, very fast paced duel. Whomever gets the first lockup wins. With missing skills GCs and such, you do less damage, but fi you lock the other up, you'll win.
And just having gear doesn't make it gear based. That only means gear is involved, it does not equate to being the deciding factor. Skill is the only deciding factor in duels.
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stuff like desync is just a bad server implenmentation you can easily handle it with houses ponds etc . chain locks are just name locking and switching to teleport these things aren't hard to do and you cannot do this unless you have teleport or using a assassin's dragon flight.
Yet remains independent of gear. Being able to get a NL won't change with gear.
As for sync, it is a server error, but to be exploited on purpose, the player has to know what he's doing. Do pinpoint when and how to use it as an advantage takes skill, not gear.
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if your budget assassin trap hybrid can kill barbs , then the barb isn't being competitive enough, with max resist a teleporting shield barb will always kill any kind of assassin this is fact, so instead people impose rules on the barb to give the assassin a chance of winning.
This further shows you indeed don't know much about dueling, despite contrary claims.
Not only are there no rules about barb vs sin that enable a sin to win, the duel is never definite. Trapper, Hybrid, and Ghost all have chances of winning.
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the rules made up are not balancing at all it only balance to your favors to what you think is fair.
And when each class is balanced in favor of that? They all have advantages present, and disadvantages (from gear exploitation) gone.
The sorc is balanced against the sorbing smiter, who is likewise balanced from uber defensive casters.
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you just need to know how to handle each build there is very little skill involve if any at all, mostly the gear is doing everything. as it is proven no character can duel with out gear.
Again, you seem confused. Gear takes place in he duels, but does not decide the winner in any way. Claiming there is little to no skill involved shows you have a poor understanding of pvp as a whole.
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a barb is the best example try dueling with out enigma the only thing you can win against are those that willing to go melee with you.
True, but does adding Enigma mean you win vs all?
No. Only if you know how to use that teleport can you even get a win, let alone consistently.
That said, you can still kill casters without teleportation. Your limited mobility limits you, and maybe you can only get a pub kill, but it is possible to kill even when the other is serious.
Similarly, a teleporting BvC is not guaranteed to win even with the high life, res, cast, damage and the opponent's low life, low block, and lockable FHR.
Besides, hdins often go without enigma, as do sorcs. Zons don't use it, and they do fine. The only time it makes or breaks a char is if it needs to teleport, which isn't required, but is a good option.|||well, thousands of people enjoy d2 pvp using the GM rules, which are btw pretty equal on all realms (i am not talking about pussy leagues), and if you dont like them because you feel resticted, go play pubs and BM if you like it better.
it is absolutely fine to do so. get you shieldbarb with 95res and wisps and naked kill those trapsins. no one will seriously complain because it is normal. its just another part of d2 pvp.
if you think the pvp system in d2 is silly overall, go play fighting games or shooters or whatever you may find skill-requiring and competitive, and stop posting trash.
i dont think we need to go more in-depth at this point.|||Quote:
Let's use a FB sorc as an easy example. That SvS is already a very, very fast paced duel. Whomever gets the first lockup wins. With missing skills GCs and such, you do less damage, but fi you lock the other up, you'll win.
this is so wrong, having skill charms with 45life, hell fire torch and annihilus makes a major difference more life more mana more damage. it doesn't matter if the sor with out charms can get a first hit as long as the other one doesn't goto fhr you will die in 2-3 shots from the sor with charms this is basically who can out last the other one, and teleing and spaming madly doesn't take skill at all.
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And just having gear doesn't make it gear based. That only means gear is involved, it does not equate to being the deciding factor. Skill is the only deciding factor in duels.
this is false. ok say you are 100 times more skillful than me. say my barb with the best items vs your barb with a white berzerker axe no mods, and white everything else no charms.
do you seriously think your skill will help you here at all? this goes for every character, your skill is nothing with no gear. hence its very gear base.
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This further shows you indeed don't know much about dueling, despite contrary claims.
Not only are there no rules about barb vs sin that enable a sin to win, the duel is never definite. Trapper, Hybrid, and Ghost all have chances of winning.
assassin have no chance of winning a barb, its basic mechanics of the game. 95% resist vs whatever your traps are, range 3, better damage,defense,life, basically the barb is better at everything.
looks like you don't understand the mechanics of pvp.
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That said, you can still kill casters without teleportation. Your limited mobility limits you, and maybe you can only get a pub kill, but it is possible to kill even when the other is serious.
again this is so wrong, there is never a chance for a barb to beat anything long range with out teleporting. its possible to kill them even when they're serious? i hope this is a joke.
and have fun trying to kill that bowazon with knock back and slow with your none teleporting barb.
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Besides, hdins often go without enigma, as do sorcs. Zons don't use it, and they do fine. The only time it makes or breaks a char is if it needs to teleport, which isn't required, but is a good option.
hdins with no teleport get stop completely by bone prisons, holy freeze, and bowazons.
i don't even know why you put out sors doesn't need engima. as for any kind of amazon put some slow gear on or use holy freeze and their entire build is meaningless.
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well, thousands of people enjoy d2 pvp using the GM rules, which are btw pretty equal on all realms (i am not talking about pussy leagues), and if you dont like them because you feel resticted, go play pubs and BM if you like it better.
it is absolutely fine to do so. get you shieldbarb with 95res and wisps and naked kill those trapsins. no one will seriously complain because it is normal. its just another part of d2 pvp.
if you think the pvp system in d2 is silly overall, go play fighting games or shooters or whatever you may find skill-requiring and competitive, and stop posting trash.
i dont think we need to go more in-depth at this point.
gm rules is still rules made up of subjective opinions.
i never claim i naked any trapsins, im just stating the obvious fact that if a barb decided to use 95% resist and shield against any kind of assassin hybrid they have no chance of winning at all.
i do think the pvp system is in fact silly since it is never meant to be, its rules are made up of favoritism towards certain classes mostly.
fighting games and fps have proven to be very competitive and skill intensive for a long long time.
you can give a new player the best gear vs a world top pvper on diablo 2 with white items guess which one will win.
your sor with white items that have no mods vs the new players sor with 95% resist to all.
honestly can you all say you can pvp with items that have no mods? i don't think so.
pvp is is like 99.9% gear base very little skill is involve at most its hand eye coordination and the ability to hold and click a mouse.|||Quote:
pvp is is like 99.9% gear base very little skill is involve at most its hand eye coordination and the ability to hold and click a mouse.
kinda like pvm, eh? this whole thread is just a troll for flames. you dont wanna discuss anything.
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